Comments on Guys Where Are We? | LOST Theories and Ideas: Recap: The Incident

Dirka- The red herring thing is great, did you fig...

2009-05-15T14:40:00.000-07:00

Dirka- The red herring thing is great, did you figure that out by yourself? B honest plz.

That stuff about what Jacob's enemy said on the beach is really good. I need to go watch it again. I'm going to make a huge post this weekend. There is so much to put together! We have a lot of information now. I seriously want to lock myself in my apt. and watch every episode from all 5 seasons again.

I need to re-watch to accurately assess who the guy in Jacob's cabin was… was it his enemy? Or was it actually Jacob? Or someone who's body was being stolen?! AHH.

Simon, I only read the first two paragraphs so far...

2009-05-15T08:36:00.000-07:00

Simon, I only read the first two paragraphs so far, but it totally makes me think that is def his loophole and Jacob hasn't known about it! Maybe the person that said "help me" in the cabin to Locke was a shadow of someone who's body had been stolen by "Esau". Now I have to go back and watch it all over again!!

I thought this was interesting, and it seems to ha...

2009-05-15T01:47:00.000-07:00

I thought this was interesting, and it seems to have some parallels. Its a story called "Loophole"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loophole_(short_story)

So I finally got to watch LOST, a freaking whole d...

2009-05-15T01:44:00.000-07:00

So I finally got to watch LOST, a freaking whole day late, but nonetheless here are my thoughts:

– I can't get over the words from man#2: They come fight, destroy, corrupt, only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress. So that alludes to this all being just a repeating event was a slightly different scenario each time?

– I thought is was real interesting that in the beginning of part 2 the conversation on the beach concludes with: "They're coming"& at the end of part 2 after Jacob is stabbed he utters the word: "They're coming". So who is "THEY"????

– I thought they focused way too much on the fish. Did you guys catch that the fish Jacob was eating was a Red Herring? Which is defined as: In literature, a red herring is a narrative element intended to distract the reader from a more important event in the plot, usually a twist ending

That beach scene was pretty fascinating, looking forward to seeing more of these guy's stories.

– So is the dark haired guy (man#2) the one whole was really locked up in "Jacobs Cabin" all this time and also the one who was telling Locke to "help him'' some seasons ago because Jacob locked him up in there via the gun powder ring?

– Im diggin that Chess analogy. So Ben was just a pawn all along, they all are huh?…

– Yes Allison I noticed that as well. He was very smooth about it. Im thinking they are leading us to believe that Jacob would be some type of good while man #2 seems to be some type of bad, but I think it's backwards. Jacob seems to have a little bit of a dark side to him, I'm going to watch out for him.

Ok thats it for now. Any help would be awesome!

Did anyone notice how Jacob touched only certain c...

2009-05-14T23:49:00.000-07:00

Did anyone notice how Jacob touched only certain characters and not others? Significant?

It makes sense in the Lost universe, but not in re...

2009-05-14T20:41:00.000-07:00

It makes sense in the Lost universe, but not in reality. :)

Here's something Alena and I were talking about at lunch. If Esau (what I'm calling the bearded dude who tells Jacob he will find a loophole) can appear as Locke, then maybe it has been Esau appearing as all the dead people, including Christian and all the people Hurley has seen. Kind of makes you want to go back and re-watch everything, to see if there are any clues to that effect or to see if what those dead people have to say seems to progress Esau's quest to kill Jacob.

Either way, the theme of Utopia came up as a possible goal of the Dharma folks in season 1 or 2 if I am not mistaken. And now we have Jacob possibly trying to set up a Utopian society. Or it could be the writers simply hinting in that direction in order to go another one so as to appear, 'clever'. :)

It is generally thought that the first idea of Utopia comes from Thomas More, but as Christians we know some important things relevant here. For one thing, evil is a perversion of good. Satan is not creative like God; he can only take what God intends/created for good and pervert it. Also, what we have in this world now is but a 'copy and a shadow'. The real Utopia - and that isn't a good name for it - is the New Heaven and the New Earth, something God planned before he created us.

Lost is interesting and good in at least one sense - it's got people thinking (who otherwise would not) about classical issues. And while they may seem like new ideas, there are no new ideas. :) It's very hard for us to tell stories that are new. Consider two recent examples (these links are to funny videos that make this point) -- Forrest Gump / Bemjamin Button, and Star Wars / Star Trek. And while secularists may point to Joseph Campbell's work for 'explanations' about why our stories have patterns, doesn't the simplest answer tend to be correct? That there is a Source, one Reality, one History?

I know I sort trailed off the path of really discussing the season finale there but.. I'm ok with that. :)

I think one rule that has been established is that...

2009-05-14T13:45:00.000-07:00

I think one rule that has been established is that when they do something in the past (that did not originally happen in the past) it doesn't show it's effects until their true present time. So, when Jack and crew blowed up the island, it's effects didn't occur in real time until that point in their real timeline, AKA 2007 (i think or 2006, whatever, you know what i mean). Stupid confusing make believe. I don't know if that makes sense.

"And when Jack dropped the bomb in the past, Jacob...

2009-05-14T12:10:00.000-07:00

"And when Jack dropped the bomb in the past, Jacob wasn't dead yet." I know what you're saying, but isn't it weird to say that something that happened in the past hasn't happened yet? But this sort of nonsense is inevitable when you're telling a story that involves a concept that is nonsensical - namely, time travel. :)

NAT! Super good point. If they kill Jacob everythi...

2009-05-14T10:16:00.000-07:00

NAT! Super good point. If they kill Jacob everything will be completely different, how obvious, but I really missed it. The two things coincided… Jacob dies and blamo! We're heading back to square one in a completely different scenario. Quite honestly, I think that is a more than satisfying twist to this whole tale.

I completely agree. I can't believe how selfish a...

2009-05-14T09:15:00.000-07:00

I completely agree. I can't believe how selfish all their motivations are.

Doesn't anyone listen to their elders anymore? hello!?!?! Rose and Bernard... they've got it right. Miles too. Maybe the best thing to do was nothing at all.

Can I just say, I TOTALLY forgot about the whole hand thing. I'm not sure that I ever noticed it before. I really need to think that one over now...

I'm not sure I really understand Juliet being okay with just tossing the bomb in, all because she doesn't want to lose Sawyer. And what the heck?!?!

Also, you drop a BOMB down a well that's probably hundreds of feet deep and it doesn't go off? uh... that's bizzare. Well, then again, Juliet did fall down as well and somehow she's still alive enough to blow up the freakin' thing.

Maybe this all ties into the Jacob thing. "Locke" keeps saying that if they kill Jacob everything will be different. And when Jack dropped the bomb in the past, Jacob wasn't dead yet. When "Locke" through Ben kills Jacob and then all the sudden Juliet wakes up in the bottom of the well and is able to smash the bomb with a rock to set it off? hmmmm...

Also, what did Jacob really mean about, "they're coming?" Did he mean the others waiting outside? the group on the plane with "Locke/Man #2"? Didn't he say he was "going to take care of them... you know what I mean?"

That whole thing just blows my mind.

Well, aside from Jack's and Juliet's semi-question...

2009-05-14T09:08:00.000-07:00

Well, aside from Jack's and Juliet's semi-questionable reasons for wanting to 'blow up' the island (aka..start from zero), I thoroughly enjoyed the finale. Jacob...we hardly knew ye! His inclusion into the the main characters backstory was really great (especially him waiting from John to get pushed out the window from 8 stories up). The very first scene with Jacob and mystery enemy (Hanzo...a good guess) and what looked like the Black Rock ship was fantastic and a great setup for the end. Which, blew me away...imposter Locke...we're docking at crazy town folks! But a good kind of crazy.

The Juliet scene with Sawyer and the magetic chains of doom was very good and touching. Kate was about to muck up their relationship and the writers decide to off Juliet...makes sense to me. lol

I think season 6 could end up being an altered microcosm of seasons 1-5. Time repeating itself but in different ways with Characters slowly realizing what had taken place before and choosing different paths this time. Miles had it right when he suggesting that Jack was about to cause the incident, not prevent it (and yes, the hand injury to Chang back that theory up). That's my guess for now.

Awesome sauce all around :)

Good point. I guess when I said they were heroic, ...

2009-05-14T08:47:00.000-07:00

Good point. I guess when I said they were heroic, what I meant was "Hey guys, I know you're extraordinarily selfish most of the time, but you have officially blown me away this time."

"Hey, guys, I thought you were heroic." I think th...

2009-05-14T04:58:00.000-07:00

"Hey, guys, I thought you were heroic." I think this is a mistake. Every single major character in this show is deeply morally flawed. They have all done unspeakable things before they even reach the island, and many of them after arriving.

And yes, you can be heroic and deeply morally flawed at the same time, but I think we tend to want these characters to be heroic naturally, because God has set things up for there to be a Hero in History. So we expect for there to be a hero in every story.

And the show is written so that we sympathize with these people who are actually not good people. And I don't just mean in the general way that we are all sinners who fall short of the Glory of God -- these people are actually more deeply flawed than average.

But I don't see this show ending with any real Justice. There is only the relativism of a shallow, secular, cinema. Black and White, Dark and Light, Yin and Yang, in this world, they all turn out to be gray.